Project Update

Projects continue to move forward at BLMH. These include repairs to streams and waterfalls, gazebo replacement, landscaping, decks, drainage, streets, storm sewer basins and so on.

My challenge is to deal with all sorts of infrastructure issues while preparing for the future. It's been a 10 year mission while on the board for eight years.  But we don't live forever, and so who will take up the challenge in the future? That's a real question which I cannot answer. I am pragmatic and so I assume it will be up to me to get the critical things done, enroll others, and deal with the party people who do nothing. Ergo my approach in which "urgency" is the operative word. I won't be here forever and so I have a very limited amount of time to make a  very needed difference.

We're currently addressing a stream issue which has existed for about 20 years. It wasn't dealt with because the association lacked the funds to do so. How is that? Well, owners wanted "low fees" and boards accommodated them. So the association could barely meet the requirements of roofing replacements, let alone street work and landscaping issues. Everything else was put "on the back burner" as we say in the kitchen.

In 2018 the board has taken up the challenge, yet again, and again, and again. We'll finally complete the stream and waterfall maintenance issues which have languished. We'll replace the asphalt pavement on another two cul-de-sacs. We'll repair storm water basins and curbs on those streets, too.

Yes, it really is a race. Or, I could simply sit back, and let future boards deal with this and so many other issues. But that's not the way I approach life. We can either make a difference, or amount to no difference.

After a recent water main failure the City of Wheaton intervened in our association's water main replacement.  This was the direct consequence of a water main break which was dealt with as soon as possible on an emergency basis. Because the break occurred under a 4-car driveway the association board agreed on an emergency basis to replace the entire main section under the driveway, about 90 feet, to avoid future interruptions to owners at this address and others on this section of water main, about 20 homes in all. This would also avert near future repairs to this driveway because of any water main issues.

With initial approval by the city of  Wheaton employee who came onto the property because of the break to ascertain the nature of the problem and provide City input, the association plumbing contractor put about 40 feet of main into the ground.

However, at that point a City of Wheaton employee arrived on the scene and demanded that the replacement cease. It was stated that the type of pipe used for this replacement was not acceptable. (This approach has been approved by the city for recent replacements, including 2015). Apparently the EPA is now the determinant for water main replacements! Another benefit to owners as a consequence of the Obama Administration's intrusion into all aspects of one's life.

With no alternative, the 40 feet of NEW main was removed, and replaced as mandated by the City of Wheaton.  This increased the replacement cost by $10,000, delayed water main repairs and disrupted water for 20 resident units for another two days.

Here's the official Wheaton  video of the May 21st City Council meeting in which I attempted to get this sorted out. The interesting part begins at about 17:30.

https://player.vimeo.com/video/271192290


Most residents are oblivious of the issues. Of course some things don't change. After all, service "is what I pay my fees for."

Water Main Break - Plymouth

A water main break was reported this morning.

May 14, 10:45am this Video posted, our plumbers complete repairs and water restored about 10:35am.

May 14, 9:14am Water on Harrow, Plymouth and part of Thames turned off.

May 14, 7:45 am - 9:00am Plymouth, Harrow and parts of Thames notified "door to door" that water will be turned off.

May 14, 7:45am This video taken. Wheaton police and water department on site.

More info will be posted here as it is available.

Here's a couple of short videos taken before the water was turned off.









After the break was sealed, still a mess and cleanup to be done:

Comments, Corrections, Omissions, References

Note 1.  This break occurred after the hydrant flushing of May 11, 2011.

Water Main Break - An Affected Owner's Request - Photos

Here is an update. I added some photos the evening of October 16

I received an email from an owner, and in it she asked if I could provide additional information on the water main break on Gloucester. She stated that "Do you know when the work will be completed or when we can drink the water safely if we have it? Yesterday I called FUPM, and [I was told] there was another break, and there could possibly be more troubles.

On Sunday I went to the site several times and never saw anyone monitoring it. I asked the workers Sunday evening when they were going down into the large and deep hole if they were going to shore it first or use a trench box, and they said they did not have time; so, I am happy to hear they are now in accordance with OSHA rules.

Anyway, Norm, if you can shed more light on the situation, please do. I would appreciate knowing when the problem will be officially fixed."

Here was my emailed response, slightly edited for posting:

I am sorry for the delay in responding. This is my personal response to you, as a resident. Yes, I am a board member, but I am speaking for myself here and I have not been given a formal statement by the board and its position in this matter. So this is not an official statement of the board. 

I believe a notice has been posted on the quality of the water. The board is attempting to provide frequent information to the affected owners.

It's my understanding that notices have been posted in the foyers, providing affected residents with updates. I also understand that emails have been issued to affected residents, who have provided their email addresses to the association. I believe all of this is being coordinated by our president. Several board members have assisted in distributing these notices. 

I am not provided with this information in a timely manner. I'm not sure why, but most likely it is because this blog is not considered a source of "news"  in the association. For my part, I have not asked for frequent updates. So "up to the minute" information is not available on my site. It is not the part of any BLMH emergency notification system. Our official BLMH.org web site is apparently not structured for use as part of a "current events" news system. It is currently under the direction of our Communications Director and the board.

I understand this repair is almost complete at this time. Officially, it was not possible to provide you,  I or anyone with details about exact "fix date" because no one could, with any certainty, predict when the pipe would stop rupturing. Here is some info, which I can't yet verify. Multiple breaks, or ruptures occurred on several dates and in different locations on the same water main. I have been told there were a total of 5 breaks! This is unusual, but is no one's fault.  I am sure that is little consolation to you or any other owner living on Gloucester or Dover and affected by the failure.

It was the decision of the contractor to bring in an OSHA required [or mandated] box, and subsequent failures required a larger box, actually two. These boxes are costly to use and to transport, and require time to construct and position. However, the ultimate goal is to do repairs of this type as quickly as possible and at the most reasonable cost, to the association and the owners, and with a minimum of disruption to you and anyone else. While the association values the fees we so carefully collect and save, I see no attempt to penny pinch in this matter, and I believe the ultimate cost will reflect that.

As to the nature of the delays, it takes, for example, digging to determine what the problem is, beyond the obvious "it's a broken water main." Exactly where was it broken, what is the depth, the condition of the line, etc. is not obvious until the ground is broken and a hole is made. At the time of the break, the contractor estimated the type of equipment required on site and then got it here. The contractor is very experienced and is, I understand, one of the more proficient at this type of work and has much experience on our property with these types of problems. 

I'm sure the board will be looking closely at what failed, at the response of the contractor and also of FUPM, and of the communications issues raised by this water main failure. I would hope the purpose will be not to spread blame or point fingers, but to better understand how the association can better respond to this type of failure, so that communications system can improve. Believe me, your president takes all of the quite seriously, and so do I and the other members of the board. She has directed that you and others in the immediate area of the break get frequent notices posted. I believe the architectural director posted the notices you saw this morning (October 15) and that was after a late night budget workshop!

I wish I could tell you more, but that is what I know at this time (Friday morning, was my last communications with anyone and that was one of your affected neighbors). 

I have suggested a phone tree or similar for the future. That does not currently exist and would require the cooperation of owners, who would have to release their phone numbers for this use. Certainly other techniques will be considered. One of the issues with this type of problem is the infrequency. That makes emergency preparedness more difficult, but certainly possible. What would be the best method of communication? I suggest [you] make specific recommendations because you were one of the owners affected. You could direct that information to our Communications Director. 

Looking at this piping failure, I have been told that the last time a failure of this type occurred on Gloucester was 2002. Most of the other breaks on the property have been a single break, which was very easily repaired. My personal concern at this time is the question "is this indicative of the types of water line failures we can expect, in the future, as the infrastructure ages?" That is a serious question. I have been told by relay of information attributed to the contractor, that a part of the problem is that the soil composition as they moved east was that of a "peat bog." I assume that this is not typical on our property. But we'll have get more information on that. 

Norm

Some Additional Photos

Here are a few photos of the "dig". The hole is not quite filled, but the multiple breaks have apparently been fixed. I understand this stage of completion was reached on Friday. However, I first want to show this photo, taken on October 14. This shows a stack of two OSHA safety boxes. They are two high. Each box is about 8 ft. tall, so the stack shown in this photo is 16 feet in height! That gives some idea of the depth of the hole. However, I should point out that the initial hole was shallow. As the break, or breaks "progressed" the hole became both longer and deeper. This photo depicts what might have been the maximum depth.

The OSHA boxes were removed and these photos were taken Saturday afternoon:

Equipment waiting for transport and a partially filled hole.

A partially filled, barricaded and safety-taped hole:

A Hole Grows In Wheaton

And what an expensive hole it is! The water main break on Gloucester is growing. Temporary patches have been installed, but on October 12/13 another break or multiple breaks occurred. The hole is getting longer, an OSHA mandated protective box has been installed, and even larger mechanized equipment is now on the site.

Tomorrow with be day number 5. This will be quite an expensive repair. Possibly equivalent of $125 per owner. Of course, some may quibble about my numbers. Some always do. However, I'm including my estimates of the repair, crushed stone fill, driveway and landscaping, and a tree or two that have been removed. Why include all of that? From a cost accounting perspective, none of these costs would have occurred at this time if it were not for this break. So in my book, these are the contributors to the full cost of this repair. Another way to look at it is this; if this break had never occurred, this money never would have been spent. Some of this may be common sense, or, to paraphrase another board member, who has used this term during association meetings, "that's only logical", isn't it?

There are two sides to this. These types of problems are inevitable; they will occur. The only thing we don't know is precisely when they will occur. So it's only responsible to financially prepare for the inevitable, isn't it? This association does plan and prepare, and it raises fees in an orderly way, to assure that it has sufficient reserves and funds for operations. Well, OK, most of the time it does. And it does so because some of those "hard" people are alway pressing to adequately fund our association. People like me.

The alternative is, the board can vote for very low fees, and it will be entirely up to the owners to plan and prepare. That means, leave it entirely up to the owners to manage their finances in such a way as to save a few dollars each month, to be available for problems and special assessments. Then, when we have a problem, such as this, the association can simply "pass the hat" to the owners. Those owners will then willingly and cheerfully dig into the cookie jar and pull out a wad of bills they have saved explicitly for this moment!

Dream on, Norm! What planet am I on?

Last year, our board voted a 0% fee increase. They did so with management's input. Did they jump at the opportunity of a 0% fee increase because that is what they wanted to hear? Or did they do a little bit of independent analysis so they could come to an informed decision? I don't know what they did, because they didn't tell us, the unit owners. But in the end we did get a 0% fee increase. (Note 5).

I had done my research, which included some simple things like the ultimate cost of our roofs and driveway projects. You will recall, the board had voted to proceed with those and if it weren't for delays by supposedly external forces, we would have had 7 driveways repaved last year, in addition to two roofs.

My arithmetic indicated some funding problems with these programs and I did discuss this with some board members. To others, I was and probably still am "persona non grata." (Note 2).

So I began a public campaign to encourage all owners to save the difference between that 0% fee and a small fee, in a cookie jar each month, because I knew we would need it. I "knew" that it would be inevitable for a fee increase at some point in the near future. I was advocating that a prudent owner prepare for it. So, anyone who heeded my words has been doing this and will, I hope, continue to save a bit each month in preparation.

The real point of stating that here and now is I want to use it as an example of my position about unit owner preparedness. I suspect many and perhaps most owners didn't hear my words, or if they did, they simply didn't heed them. I wouldn't  be surprised if some of the board at that time reassured owners and told them to ignore me.  That's conjecture on my part, but I suspect we are dealing with individual belief systems here. (Note 3).

To return to reality, the question is, which is better? Having the owners each use their own best judgement and save and be prepared, or have the association manage these financial affairs. Some here are arguing that the association is doing a poor job, and the owners would do a better job. A few, I suppose would. But would all? I say they wouldn't and for that reason I disagree with the naysayers. To support my position, I suggest we check the number of owners who are late paying their fees each month. And by how much? Who or whom is late is considered "personal information." However, the amounts are in the monthly accounting records and are available to all owners.

Returning to the immediate issue, there will always be problems of this type. Breaking pipes, falling trees, the occasional unit fire, or roof leak; it's all a normal part of ownership. Rational board members have been arguing for years that we need to adequately fund for these types of breakdowns. Management, for its part added a "contingency" reserve category. That's to allow the board to have somewhere to fund for these  problems.

Will there be other failures? Of course there will, and probably more frequently. Why? Because our infrastructure is aging. That's not a big deal, unless our board decides to stick its head in the sand and pretend that we don't need to adequately fund for driveway replacement, garage floor replacement, new trees, roofs and of course, the occasional breakdown. Believe me, it's easy to fall into the trap. All one has to do is listen to their neighbors. The ones who complain about our "high fees." That's "diversion speak" for "we don't need to save or fund our reserves," or "I'd rather spend my money elsewhere and I don't want to put it into this association."

The next time someone tells me that they think they can do it better than the association does, I'll should ask them a few questions:

1. Do you currently have $5,000 set aside for a new furnace to replace that 30 old one in your unit?
2. Do you have $400 for a new hot water heater to replace that 15 year old one in your unit?
3. Do you have at least one month's cash saved up in advance to cover next month's bills, including your association fees?
4. Do you have a 6-month "emergency fund" which financial planners recommend, should you suddenly experience a loss of income?
5. Are you funding your Roth IRA 100% each year?
6. Is your 401K or retirement plan fully funded?

If you can answer "yes" to each of these, then you and I can have a conversation about how you probably are financially prepared, and you are capable of independent financial planning. However, I suggest that most of us are not as prepared as you, and we need a responsible financial plan for this association, and we also need a reliable means of collecting the fees required by that plan.

That plan includes realistic data on the condition of infrastructure, including its age and condition, and a companion document to fiscally and responsibly fund the association in accordance with these plans. Earlier this year the board authorized and paid for a "Reserve Study." It was expensive, but it was decided to be necessary by the previous board. Some of us are now analyzing it and determining the relevance of its merits and conclusions. (Note 1).

Here are a few more photos take at dusk on October 13. 

Comments, Corrections, Omissions, References, Miscellaneous News
Note 1.  I was elected to the board and since approximately October 1 I have been doing a serious analysis and review of the "Reserve Study." I have provided two documents to the board, including one of about 3,000 words and another of about 4,000 words, and several spread sheets. I'll be posting more here tomorrow.

Note 2. As the newest and most junior member of the board, I am bound to keep some things in confidence. However, I am also bound to act in accordance with my fiduciary duty. I'll do my best to earn the trust of the board, but some will probably never trust me. I suspect some are simply counting each and every one of my missteps, because this will support any such position regarding my un-trustworthiness, my lack of accuracy, etc. In politics, if you can't discredit a person's position, and the information they present , then one does their best to discredit the person. This is Illinois, after all and most of us have had the opportunity to observe political corruption and incompetence. We'll see what develops here at BLMH.

Note 3. I will be doing my own analysis and I will continue to publish my views here. As a board member, I have some constraints. I don't want to publish all information and in particular, financial information here. It would be inappropriate and won't serve the association on the manner in which I do intend to serve it. I have observed and scrutinized  boards here for the better part of three years, I have made some conclusions about individuals because of their arguments and also because of what is not stated to unit owners. I have concluded that in recent years, some board members truly believed our fees were too high and unnecessary. They also believed our professionals were not to be trusted and were doing a poor job. They then began to act out of those personal beliefs, and some board members may continue to do so.

From the perspective of information, a case in point is our association newsletter. It is greatly expanded, but does it really provide more information? Does it prepare owners at BLMH for some of the responsibilities of ownership, for our finances, for the realities of some of this association? I think it could do better. Owners have called for more transparency on the board. The news letter is the perfect vehicle for that. I think some owners would like much more information about the decision making process. I will provide that here, in a responsible way, but I can only go so far and I can't reveal all. I will discuss various sides of the arguments, such as financial planning, project decisions, and so on. However, I can't quote individual board members unless they permit it.

Note 4. Because of the realities of being a member of the board, I will be restrained slightly. So I'll use my best judgement about what is printed here and what is not. I pressed forward with my independent analysis of the reserve study, and produced two letters to the board. That wealth of information was prepared by me and I claim the right to use it in any, prudent manner to the benefit of the association. Some of it will be printed here. I would hope the board also uses it to good purpose.

Note 5. When the time came for a vote, the Treasurer voted "no" for a 0% fee increase. As I recall he was the only "nay" vote. As I also recall, the minutes did not accurately reflect that. The minutes recorded the quantity of votes but did not indicate who, by name, had registered that "nay" vote. This came to my attention later, as I was not present at that particular meeting when the minutes were read and approved.  This is a serious oversight. Why? because when the time comes, there will be no accurate historical record of who specifically voted "ay" and who voted "nay." It is possible one or more board members will one day claim that they were the caster of that "nay" vote. 

Emergency Preparedness and Response at BLMH

This morning (actually, at 11:42pm last night), I received an "official" email notification of the break on Gloucester. The email was addressed to "Dear fellow unit owners" and provided some general information about the break. It also raised several very worthwhile points and advised owners that "the board will discuss the association's emergency-preparedness procedures. In situations like this one, it would be good to have an effective means of keeping unit owners well informed with whatever information is available."

I responded with an email to the board which contained the following information.

1. I appreciate the email notification, even at this late time (11:42pm). From the salutation, I assume this was broadcast to many owners. How many unit owners are included in the “email loop?” I’m interested in knowing this because that tells me what percentage of owners were notified using this method, and what percentage probably were not.
2. On the morning of Sunday October 10th, I received a telephone call advising me of the problem. [A former board president] was at the site of the break, and our emergency responders and the city were attempting to shut off the water as quickly as possible. I interviewed the representative of our “Water Management Contractors” to ascertain the situation. I then began fielding owner questions about the nature of the problem. When [our treasurer] arrived, we filled him in. At least two of us were at the site an extended period of time, management was on site, and I returned several times during the day and passed information to any unit owners I encountered. I saw no other board members at any time on Sunday. I am sure other board members were made aware of this as at various times during the day.
3. A unit owner in the immediate building complained that she should have been notified and suggested the water could have been left on a sufficient length of time so that she could have rinsed; she was in the shower when the water went off! She stated that would be “common courtesy.” I pointed out that in an emergency, it is the responder’s decision. Their goal is the protection of people and property. To any owners I encountered, I explained the procedures and the possible duration of the emergency repair, which could be the entire day. (It was!) If you or anyone on the board want more information about this break, I suggest you read my website.
4. After complaining, that unit owner returned to her unit. I am unaware if she then relayed this information to anyone else.
5. It's my understanding that water to most, but not all of Gloucester, was restored in short order.
6. My purpose in spreading this information was to alert unit owners on the property to possible larger affected area. While the responders were looking for the appropriate water shutoff, it was not immediately clear exactly how much of the property would be without water.
7. What is the role and purpose of the “Neighbors Club”? Is this something they could and should participate in? [Our Communications Director] is extensively involved in this club and is the treasurer, I have been told. Such service would be a perfect opportunity for an expression of “ownership” by involved owners. So why not use this group to support their “neighbors?” It would also seem to be a natural extension of “communications” by our Communications Director.
8. I found the level of mis-information among the owners I spoke to, to be appalling.
9. I would suggest a serious attempt be made to educate unit owners as to the true nature of BLMH, and their role in THEIR association. If the board wants to call us “homeowners” then I also suggest the board begin a serious discussion of what that means and what are the expectations on the part of the association of such owners. Or is “ownership” at BLMH a one way street and our management the concierge? (Note 3).
10. Why is there no current information about this break on the BLMH.org website? That’s the current official source of “immediate” information for our association.
11. My report on the break, at briarcliffelakes.blogspot.com, received 87 pageviews yesterday and a greater number on Sunday. It would seem apparent that it is filling a gap in the communications of the association. If current events are posted on the association website, in a timely manner, then it too could be a source of current information to the association. Of course, my blog is an underground site and does not really exist in the official annals of Briarcliffe Lakes Manor Homes. As a consequence, many owners remain unaware of its existence and the information contained therein is not available to them. So it is essential that the official site be first available. 
12. These websites are not available to everyone at BLMH; it takes a personal computer and access to the web. Not everyone here has such technology and access. Obviously that means such “emergency preparedness” as [the email ] is promoting might require door knocking or the equivalent. Who is going to do this?

Comments, Corrections, Omissions, References, Miscellaneous News

Note 1. I’m sure this particular break caused a significant fall in water pressure in the immediate area. That pressure is vital for fire fighting efforts. It is the inherent nature of emergencies that they result in some disruption and interruption to people’s lives. 

Note 2. What would be an appropriate and effective method or methods of communications? Send your comments or let your board know. However, such suggestions should include what part you would play in this. We can all make suggestions about how "someone else" should make our association a better place to live. However, this is your association. Not simply mine, the boards' or the Neighbors Club members'.

Note 3. Kudos to a former board member for that expression. I like it! 

Water Main Break

A water main break occurred on Gloucester early Sunday morning, October 10. One of our professional managers was on site at 4:00am Sunday morning to determine the extent of the problem and coordinate with the city water department and our crew's emergency response.

This post was expanded the morning of October 11 and additional comments added.

According to the Water Management Contractors who responded, this would be the procedure:

1. Facilitate Emergency Repairs as soon as possible and restore water.
2. Return the next day and complete normal repairs. This will include possible further inspection of the water line to determine its condition and how much pipe to be replaced. Then make a determination of the extent of repair and with approval of management, do that. 

After the repairs are complete, the association will have other tasks to complete:

1. Clean up.
2. Repave the driveway at 1782.
3. Repair damaged landscaping.

It's unfortunate, but the new asphalt driveway was lifted by the surging water and another large area was, of course, dug up. A neighbor, when informed of this problem, stated to my spouse "no problem, the city will take care of it."

This person has been on the property for at least 15 years. She is very uninformed in this case. Our association owns the street and the water pipe below it. We'll be responsible for any and all costs.

Another neighbor suggested that we should "sue sombody" (I think the term that was used was to "legally subjugate").  That would be ourselves, I guess, since we, which includes you and I, are the owners of the property and the water lines below, etc. I guess she is suggesting we sue each other and then the board could vote a special assessment to pay for any legal fees and judgements. Sorry, I can't support such ideas. As owners, our money needs to be spent on roofs, driveways, various concrete projects and daily operations and landscaping.   

It will be interesting to see the entire bill, which will include:

• Sunday emergency work for most of the day (last photo I took was at about 4:30PM and they were still digging! I assume that this is overtime rate, possibly double and triple time?
• Permanent repair.
• Clean-up.
• Grading and new asphalt drive and entry.
• Landscaping repair.

In the following photo, you can see the lifting of large sections of the driveway by the pressure of the water exerted below it. If you click on this picture and any of the others, it will open and you will have a greatly enlarged image. 

Here's an enlarged section with the worker stepping gingerly on the raised section.

There was so much water, under such pressure, that it was being ejected and literally shooting out along the edge of the driveway along its length. With it were large quantities of muck (that's slang for very wet soil and clay). Here is one such spot, after the water was turned off. This driveway was severely damaged. The good news, is from outward appearances, all water moved away from the nearby buildings.

This photo was taken after the flow had been greatly diminished, immediately after the main valve to this section of pipe had been completely closed. The residual water is flowing into the sewer

With the water off, and the immediate emergency averted, the crew dug while various neighbors looked on.

The resulting hole was immense!

Six hours later, they were still digging! This is, of course a slow and laborious process. Digging commences in the possible area of the break. It continues until the water main is uncovered, and then digging progresses horizontally until the source of the break is revealed. This requires periodically "cracking" the water valve so that the source of the leak can be seen. Of course, all that is revealed is some spinning or shooting water which points in the direction of the damaged section. Not a fast or easy job.

The morning of October 11, work resumed to make a permanent repair. Additional equipment was brought in and soil was moved out of the way. Management informed me that they were getting repair costs estimates and would proceed with soliciting a bid for repaving of the ruined driveway. Management informed me that the hole will be expanded to beyond the driveway and pipe replaced, to assure that a future break in this area, should it occur, will not damage the driveway. That's the plan, of course, but in the real world, things do sometimes go wrong. All that we can do is attempt to anticipate these problems, plan accordingly and of course, accrue funds so we can financially handle these when they occur. Or, the board can simply levy "special assessments" each and every time these events occur. That's not a option in my book. I prefer "prix fixe" menus at restaurants, where I pay one price for a complete meal of several courses, at a fixed price for the meal.

Comments, Corrections, Omissions, References, Miscellaneous News
Note 1.  This will be an expensive repair. Extensive hours and equipment on a Sunday, which is most likely at overtime rates, permanent piping repairs on a Monday,  a new driveway and landscaping. I suppose the only saving grace is it happened before the annual board budget meeting and no buildings appear to have been harmed.

Note 2. Comment added October 11: The city was not directly involved, but has access to shutoff valves outside the property and also maps detailing the location of the various major shutoff valves on the property.

Note 3. In response to a reader's question "Any chance this could have been exacerbated by the previous driveway repair?" I would say this. I would guess, from visual observation that the water line is 8 to 10 feet below the surface. I never saw the pipe line! They were 8 feet down and still digging when I snapped the last of those photos on Sunday. Even with the removal of several feet of old asphalt and crushed stone, at such a depth, the 8 feet or so of soil remaining above the pipeline would provide substantial distribution of any forces exerted by the paving equipment. Our management is looking into some of the possible causes. However, this was a major break. Not a "pinhole." I think we just experienced our own version of a Deepwater Horizon blowout. Fortunately, this was fresh water.