On October 12, Anonymous asked this reasonable question as part of a comment. I was planning on publishing this tonight at 12:01 AM, but on reading the banter, I decided to post it now:
"What I'm asking is, what is/was the benefit of us owning our own water pipes, roads, etc?"
Here's my response. We live in a PUD, which is a "Private Urban Development." That means, we own the buildings, the streets and even the water lines below them.
The principal benefit, for the developer and for the residents, is the ability of a PUD to deviate, in certain acceptable ways, from other zoning norms for the city. That means our buildings can have a different setback from the street and different separations, and instead of large grassy front lawns and sidewalks, the buildings can be arranged in an unusual way to allow that land to be put to use behind the buildings for walking paths, streams, waterfalls and extensive landscaping.
The trade-off for this is, we are responsible for some aspects of our property, including the streets, that other parts of the city are not.
You may have noticed that our streets don't adhere to the general arrangement of other streets in the neighborhood. Even our street signs are different! Our streets are a slightly different width, we have a fire lane on one side of the streets, designated as "no parking". We have a sign at the entrances designating the property as "no trespassing" with a general statement about parking and an "Unauthorized vehicles will be towed" sign.
Parking on our streets is, unlike the city streets, reserved strictly for OUR residents, their guests and deliveries or maintenance. The streets are private. There are rules about the general types of vehicles that are allowed.
We are, for all intents and purposes, a gated community without the gates.
To paraphrase several municipalities description of a PUD, a Planned Unit Development has the benefit of producing a well-designed development that will have a positive effect on health, security and general welfare. This benefit is achieved by establishing a unitary control over an entire development area, rather than control on a lot-by-lot basis. A typical PUD development plan includes the following information: land uses, distances between buildings, allocations for open space, on-site parking, density limitations per acre, periphery setbacks, floor area ratio, land coverage, land use relationships with adjoining areas, and any other applicable specifications as deemed necessary by city planning staff.
Some of the advantages pass to the city. They provide services for which the responsibilities of the city ends at our entrances and property lines. That includes water and snow removal. Of course, the city provides residents with fire and police protection.
If a perspective buyer is interested in a very quiet community, with great foliage and private walking paths, etc. this place can't be beat. Here is a post I made earlier this year and I think it sums up some of the pros and cons:
Link to "Our City Within A City"
Special Entrance Signs
There are two signs at each entrance. They pertain to the rules and the regulations, and to how to retrieve your vehicle if it is towed. The signs are very explicit. They make it clear, you are entering private property, which is exactly what our PUD is. Here is one of the signs, and I added this photo on October 25, 2010:
Comments, Corrections, Omissions, References, Miscellaneous News
Note 1. I do agree that it is sometimes shocking when owners don't understand some of the basics of living at BLMH. Anon. above may be fully aware, but some of our owners are not, based on simple conversations including the recent water line break. Here are the responses of several owners on Sunday:
Recent boards have apparently decided that the way to deal with this is appeasement of disgruntled owners, so many of our rules are no longer enforced, or are enforced haphazardly and inconsistently. Taking such an approach removes some of the advantages we have. For example, attempts by well meaning but misguided board members to open up the community to outside groups and events. We then are in a situation where our "gated community" is no longer gated, We then also have the disadvantage of paying for something, a benefit, we no longer have!
Those streets are our property and we pay for their maintenance. Larger vehicles do exert much more wear and tear on them. No kidding. Check the condition of some sections of north Lakecliffe.
This approach will, I expect, result in some much larger problems in the future.
I have strongly recommended our association consider a sales brochure with this basic information, and much more. However, there is currently little interest. So for now, it seems this association would rather take the risk of acquiring owners who are uninformed at the time of purchase, and would also rather "clean up the mess" and deal with these unhappy people.
We could also have a much more expanded "Welcome Packet." However, that's a little too late inform a buyer of some of the basics. Hmmm, should we publish a 900 page "owners manual" to go with the 1800 page "Board Member's Manual" which includes all the procedures a board member should follow when there is a water main break?
- Don't worry about it, it's a city problem.
- Don’t worry about it, it's a city problem. (Yep, two different owners).
- We should sue somebody.
- Won’t the company that just did the driveway replace it under warranty?
- Why didn't I get a notice before the water was shut off; that's common courtesy!
- Ouch! We own that pipeline!
Recent boards have apparently decided that the way to deal with this is appeasement of disgruntled owners, so many of our rules are no longer enforced, or are enforced haphazardly and inconsistently. Taking such an approach removes some of the advantages we have. For example, attempts by well meaning but misguided board members to open up the community to outside groups and events. We then are in a situation where our "gated community" is no longer gated, We then also have the disadvantage of paying for something, a benefit, we no longer have!
Those streets are our property and we pay for their maintenance. Larger vehicles do exert much more wear and tear on them. No kidding. Check the condition of some sections of north Lakecliffe.
This approach will, I expect, result in some much larger problems in the future.
I have strongly recommended our association consider a sales brochure with this basic information, and much more. However, there is currently little interest. So for now, it seems this association would rather take the risk of acquiring owners who are uninformed at the time of purchase, and would also rather "clean up the mess" and deal with these unhappy people.
We could also have a much more expanded "Welcome Packet." However, that's a little too late inform a buyer of some of the basics. Hmmm, should we publish a 900 page "owners manual" to go with the 1800 page "Board Member's Manual" which includes all the procedures a board member should follow when there is a water main break?
Thanks for the clarification, Norm.
ReplyDeleteI fortunately was aware that we own the pipes/roads. I just didn't get the benefit really. Norm did a good job of explaining that.
As for previous anon posters (and Norm) being apparently "upset" that people are just dumb, uninformed sheep - let me ask you. Is reading a 1900 page document feasible in the amount of time it takes to put in an offer (i.e. "make a move") on a property here at BLMH? Should it be feasible? If so, is reading 1900 pages really what it takes to be informed? I ask because, for most people, reading a 1900 page document (littered with 'professional' legal terms, red tape, legal mumbo jumo, etc) isn't on the agenda. Sorry, that's just the way it is. It's not because the person is dumb, lazy, or narcissistic. Reading a 1900 page legal document in the course of a day is not feasible for the common person. I'm sorry. Most people probably skim the chapters, like I did.
This is the same reason congressmen don't read every page of a bill before signing it into law. It just isn't feasible. So while some of you can rag on people with your nose held high for "not being informed", maybe you should realize that some people don't have the time to continually reference a 1900 page manual every time they have a question.
Who knows, maybe Norm's welcome packet idea could make a good cliffnotes version of the Rules and Regulations (though this would already be after one has purchased a unit).
So based on your blog, we own the streets, but who sets the rules. Are we allowed to park on the streeet in the opposite direction of the traffic? Are we allowed to park our business trucks or vans where we please? Just a few observations.
ReplyDeleteLook, it doesn't require reading a 1900 page document for most of this. You are correct, most people don't. Too bad, if the fine print says your option ARM resets and recasts, and your mortgage payment jumps from $800 to $1200 a month, right?
ReplyDeleteYou might be surprised to know that my spouse and I read the bylaws and rules and regulations, before we purchased. Our attorney got those for us before the closing and we had a few days to check the fine print.
I became aware of some of the issues upon reading those documents and the financials. It required a long letter to management to settle most of our issues and concerns. We decided there was a risk in purchasing here. We purchased because of the willingness of the board to maintain the property, and the actual state and condition of this property. We purchased because the Illinois Condo Act requires boards to maintain the property. Yeah, just as the signs on the property require owners not to exceed a 20 MPH speed limit. You could say we were naive.
What is disturbing to me today is the synergy of our board and some owners, who have a willingness to change the very character of BLMH. The governing documents were created before they purchased here, but "they" have decided that BLMH should change to suit their personal perspective and whims. The board, for its part has decided to to go along with this. I have a problem with that. At its extreme, I suppose the board could dig up a few streams, bulldoze 50 trees and build a community building and swimming pool right outside my patio. I'd love the view of the side of a large building. That's exactly what many owners in Wheaton view each and every day. A very busy street, the parking lot behind Jewel or Dominicks, etc. However they don't pay an extra $300 each month for that view, and to live in an "award winning" complex. Should the board spend money to maintain it? Last year, the board apparently "rolled the dice" and voted a 0% fee increase. We still had foreclosures.
We've had a few owners complain about our lack of a "community building" at association meetings. True, BLMH didn't have one when they purchased here, but, let's get with the program! Why shouldn't we now? Why shouldn't the board go along with this?
Why shouldn't we also make every path, garage, entrance and building "handicapped accessible" and friendly?
There is no end to the possible personal agendas, the possible complaints and the needs, wants and desires of owners at BLMH. If the board thinks their primary purpose is to keep us all happy, perhaps you can figure out where this association is headed.
Some owners complain "Our fees are too high." So why shouldn't the board simply stop maintaining the property? What's to stop them besides their fiduciary duty? Do all of us know what that is? Do we care? Should we care?
Ownership is a privilege. It isn't a right.